[00:00:00] Radio
[00:00:14] Welcome to Escape The Rat Race Radio , I am your host, Christian Rodwell, and this is
[00:00:18] your ticket to Escape the Nine to Five.
[00:00:26] We can't even begin to do anything unless you can tell us all those nuggets of information that
[00:00:31] are going to separate you ultimately from a very crowded marketplace. However original you think
[00:00:36] your idea might be there's probably somebody or several people out there doing it already.
[00:00:41] Welcome to Escape the Radio today. My name is Christian Rodwell and today I'm talking with Mark
[00:00:49] Turnbull and Tree Ripley, the founders of Turnbull Ripley who are a creative agency based in the
[00:00:55] heart of Soho London which has been helping business owners both large and small with
[00:00:59] getting clarity around their brand and identity for nearly 30 years. So there's often a lot
[00:01:04] of misunderstanding about what the word brand actually means with people often thinking
[00:01:09] immediately about logos and websites but there's a whole lot more that goes into building a strong
[00:01:13] brand which we're about to hear all about. So today I'm looking forward to learning more about
[00:01:18] every aspect that early stage founders and early stage entrepreneurs like yourselves need to consider
[00:01:23] when thinking about how you want your brand to be perceived in the market. So I'm hoping that
[00:01:28] I'll be able to extract a few tips tricks and secrets from Mark and Tree that can help you
[00:01:33] when it comes to building your personal brand and getting the great results that you deserve
[00:01:38] in your business. So welcome to Escape the Rat Race Radio guys, how are you doing today?
[00:01:43] Very well thank you. Good thank you. Good to have you both on the show today and it was probably
[00:01:48] a month or two that I popped into your offices in the heart of Soho absolutely fantastic location
[00:01:54] just before the World Cup was about to kick off so I hope you guys have been good since then
[00:01:58] and we had a really good discussion and I thought I really really would love to have you on the
[00:02:03] show to share with our listeners some of the early steps that you should be thinking about
[00:02:08] when building your brand and you guys have got so much amazing experience I have no doubt that
[00:02:13] you're the right guys to have the answers for us today. So Mark why don't we jump straight in
[00:02:21] and I've shared a very brief overview there of just some of the things that you help your
[00:02:24] clients with but could you tell us a little bit about yourself in terms of background,
[00:02:29] education and experience which led to you both setting up the agency?
[00:02:33] Yeah sure with pleasure hello everybody we got started as you said 30 years ago
[00:02:40] we worked in a as is often the case the agency starts us, you work for another
[00:02:44] agency and at the time we were less than that kind of how things were going and reckoned
[00:02:50] in that sort of youthful way we had in those days that we could have a go ourselves and
[00:02:54] perhaps do it better so we broke away we took those clients with us who wanted to come
[00:03:01] quite simply and that was the the launch pad if you wish for getting going up on our own.
[00:03:07] Yeah excellent and for yourself Trieve what's kind of your background and what led you into
[00:03:11] the world of design and branding? So I did the classic design route into this environment
[00:03:19] I went to art school did a foundation course for a year and then I did a degree in graphic design
[00:03:25] at the London College of Printing which is now the London College of Communication
[00:03:29] I studied for three years and then took a job as a graphic designer so we're talking back in the day
[00:03:35] pre-Apple where everything was done in the conventional old school printing way of doing
[00:03:41] things and met Mark shortly after starting out came on board with him and then we've built
[00:03:47] this business over the instituting 29 years yeah 13 January yeah yeah great and I think it's
[00:03:53] worth you know just kind of pondering for a moment on how the industry has changed so you know I imagine
[00:04:00] it's very very different now to how it was when you guys started up we have all of these freelancing
[00:04:05] sites that are out there these days obviously and we have the digital nomad lifestyle where people
[00:04:10] just literally want to work from a laptop and travel the world and and you know I guess being a
[00:04:15] designer is something that does give you that flexibility to some degree where you're able
[00:04:20] to work remotely how have you seen kind of people coming into the industry and how are things
[00:04:25] changed in that side of things well I think you've highlighted absolutely the fundamental
[00:04:30] change when I first started out there were lots of bodies everywhere doing things so you had
[00:04:35] production people your printers were huge they had you know manually to create artwork from black
[00:04:41] and white artworks who use the plight so there was a whole different set of processes which
[00:04:45] obviously computer technology has eroded and made the process much more simple it's also allowed
[00:04:50] people to work remotely as you know with us we've got an office in Edinburgh so we've got
[00:04:57] exactly that happening with a base up in Edinburgh with guys that want to live and do that kind of
[00:05:01] lifestyle with here as well we're experiencing people want to work from home and that whole
[00:05:05] flexibility of working which is interesting and challenging given the nature of what we do
[00:05:10] is often very collaborative so the need to get together and share ideas is still a fundamental
[00:05:15] part of doing design but where you do it you know in the age of Skype and Zoom all of those
[00:05:20] technologies it's getting easier to be remote and still be together I think one of the biggest
[00:05:25] differences I noticed the it was very easy to set up here in business 30 years ago
[00:05:31] you know you didn't have you know the kind of investment and expenditure required on IT
[00:05:36] infrastructure so we just basically walked out took our artwork bags with us and begged and
[00:05:42] borrowed a desk somewhere and a landline and off you went and actually what we've noticed is much
[00:05:50] in the last 15 years the costs of setting up your own agency or your own business if you're
[00:05:55] going to go a slightly more traditional model are just so prohibitive most people don't want
[00:05:59] to take the part yeah and would you be referring more to as you said having you know if you've
[00:06:04] got offices and premises that traditional sense of how people do things so I can completely understand
[00:06:10] why people want to go the other way because it comes at a much lower cost I think the other thing
[00:06:14] that's worth saying at Apple with all the advanced technology and the ability to work remotely etc etc
[00:06:20] doesn't make you a good designer you know it still comes back to the ideas it still comes
[00:06:25] back to interpreting the brief it still comes out we're trying to find that nugget of a gem of
[00:06:29] something special that brings a brand to life and computers can make and streamline the process of
[00:06:34] delivery but they won't give you the answer I think that's worth bearing in mind absolutely yeah and
[00:06:41] I know we're probably going to go into some detail around you know what is brand and what does that
[00:06:47] actually mean and before we do that we talk about you know having a clear proposition when
[00:06:52] you're starting out in business so you've got to be able to articulate what it is that you do
[00:06:57] and who you do it for so why don't I challenge you guys and say what does what does Turnbull Ripley
[00:07:03] you know how does that stand out from the market what do you guys do differently and who do you serve
[00:07:08] I think for us we try and work around as you've highlighted earlier on at the beginning of the
[00:07:14] show this idea of bringing clarity from complexity so we're very good at taking challenging
[00:07:21] complex issues around personality it might be fit it might be strategy or approach to something
[00:07:29] and actually trying to bring some brand clarity to that try to find the pathway through all that
[00:07:33] that noise to arrive at something that is simple clean very well thought through
[00:07:40] and and surprising if you like so I mean we are if you want a proposition line for us
[00:07:46] it's on brief on brand beyond expectation so we're not here to do a different briefs the brief
[00:07:53] you've come to us with we're not here to recreate your brand if the brief is actually
[00:07:58] to use the brand elements that you have to create something but we will do something that will
[00:08:02] deliver beyond your expectation and challenge you in terms of creativity of what you've asked for
[00:08:07] and that's what we do okay so let's start looking at this if let's take an example of
[00:08:14] someone who is maybe still juggling the nine to five job but they've got a really clear idea
[00:08:19] about their business and they've already got the wheels in motion so maybe it's a product
[00:08:23] maybe it's a service but they're at that stage where maybe they've got a first few customers
[00:08:28] but they really need to establish some clear brand identity if I were to come with you
[00:08:34] in that position what would be the first steps that you would go through with someone in
[00:08:38] like an aspiring entrepreneur in that position okay we have like most agencies I imagine a
[00:08:45] process through which we work artists called brand distillery and there's four elements to that
[00:08:51] process which largely take you from the beginning to the output of a an identity a workable
[00:08:56] identity the first part that is discovery phase and that really is all about understanding
[00:09:02] the who want why and how so what is the product or service why do you think it's unique is it unique
[00:09:11] what makes you stand out do you stand out so a real honest piece of naval gazing if you like
[00:09:18] to explore the whole world in which the brand is going to live is it a me too brand is it going
[00:09:23] to be a challenger brand what's the what's the positioning how does that fit who are the people
[00:09:28] involved with it what's their take how do they fit in and how does that personality influence
[00:09:34] or potentially influence the proposition that we're going to try and develop and work around
[00:09:38] to deliver something creative and I did what I would add to that is you know we had a meeting
[00:09:42] a few weeks ago with some entrepreneurs who want to set something up in the sports
[00:09:47] in the sport sector um and yeah and it's quite surprising sometimes when people come to see
[00:09:53] you and they haven't even themselves thought hard enough about those points of difference
[00:09:58] and you know it's so I mean we can't even begin to do anything unless you can tell us
[00:10:03] what it is about you you know all those nuggets of information that that aren't going to separate
[00:10:08] you ultimately from a very crowded marketplace however original you think your idea might be
[00:10:14] there's probably somebody or several people out there doing it already so you know people
[00:10:18] often haven't in my experience thought quite hard enough about that so we spent a lot of our time
[00:10:23] asking them difficult questions to make them really think about that
[00:10:26] hmm and one of my mentors and previous guest on his skate lap race radio Roger Hamilton he
[00:10:33] shared with me that there are three brands and so I'd love to get your comments on this as well
[00:10:38] first is your your personal brand so who do you what do you stand for what are your values
[00:10:43] and what do people you know what do you stand for but also what do you stand against
[00:10:47] then you have your your company brand so similar things what does your company stand
[00:10:51] for and is that clearly articulated and then your product brand so what can people actually buy
[00:10:58] so does that fit into the mix at all with the kind of work that you do with your clients
[00:11:02] do you look at those three separate areas and do they come in a certain order
[00:11:08] I'm not sure that we we split them out quite in the way that that you're suggesting there in
[00:11:13] the distinct elements but there are there are cross-overs because I think again when you're
[00:11:17] looking at entrepreneurs they have a distinct personality and usually the thing that they're
[00:11:22] looking to to launch or take to market is something in their image and I think what we what we look
[00:11:29] to do is see where that personality blends because what we can't do what we don't we
[00:11:35] we would advise not to do is is to tell anything other than the truth because you'll be found
[00:11:40] out and clients and customers won't believe you so I think you have to be very honest
[00:11:46] in how you go about doing things I think you have to be honest in reflecting your personality
[00:11:50] through the brand or the product or the service that you're going to offer because you're an
[00:11:53] integral part of that yeah so you would say really getting clear on your story so is
[00:11:59] is that something that you would say to them you know really understand what your story is
[00:12:04] so that people feel like they're doing business with a person rather than just a logo shall we
[00:12:09] say I think that's absolutely right I think that's what they're buying I think that's what
[00:12:12] brands are your logo is purely a signature on a piece that says it's from you what people want
[00:12:18] is that warmth or that feeling of buying a particular product that makes them feel you know
[00:12:24] cutting edge or part of the you know the trendsetters or the latest in whatever it might be
[00:12:30] I think that's the important part of branding for me and also some in some ways how it comes
[00:12:37] through in there is a difference between a B2C brand and a B2B brand so for example you know if
[00:12:44] it's something the consumer is going to buy absolutely everything Trif said is it's critically
[00:12:48] important we do a lot of corporate work where an organization will have a set of values
[00:12:54] and you know it's CSR policies and all the rest of it and actually it's actually weighing up
[00:13:00] the relative merits of their values against actually what you're being asked to do for them
[00:13:05] because sometimes I won't say they're at odds but sometimes actually for the end business consumer
[00:13:10] they're less interested in what those companies values are as to the price of the product they're
[00:13:15] actually selling so there is an often a challenge in blending in blending the two and sometimes
[00:13:21] you dial one up another time you dial the other one up yeah no that makes sense so what are some
[00:13:28] of the number one mistakes that you often see people when they're developing their brand that
[00:13:33] they you know they maybe focus on one area or they don't do certain things is there anything that
[00:13:39] stands out that you see happen regularly I think for me I'd go back to the point I made earlier
[00:13:46] it is really surprising the number of conversations you have with people who haven't possibly
[00:13:55] properly thought through what it is you know why they know why they're doing what they're doing
[00:14:00] so they maybe they've had enough of the right raisement and they want to do their own thing I
[00:14:03] once had a meeting with somebody actually said I've come to talk about setting up my own business I
[00:14:07] went brilliant I'm only want to talk about it so the first question what do you think I should do
[00:14:12] I mean but it wasn't in terms of brand it was what kind of business do you think I should
[00:14:15] set up and to which I said mate if you can't work that out I'm really really going to waste
[00:14:20] your time you're going to waste mine you know so I think it's people it's actually stopping to
[00:14:25] think about all those fundamentals what am I doing why am I doing it what am I helping to achieve
[00:14:30] and what is it about what I'm doing that is going to basically resonate with people and actually
[00:14:35] allow me to to build a business that has longevity I'm not you know aware of the absolute statistics
[00:14:41] but an awful lot of startups you know fail you know in the first year and yeah I'm not saying
[00:14:46] I know why they fail on the first year but not actually having that clarity about what you're
[00:14:50] doing has got to be one of the key reasons for my experience
[00:14:56] yo what's up my name is Chris Akebusi hello I'm Simon Zici
[00:15:00] hey this is Scott Valker are you all listening too escape the rat race radio radio radio
[00:15:09] what stage do you tend to prefer to work with clients so when they've got some customers
[00:15:16] and you can actually see some feedback does that help in the process of putting together
[00:15:20] the brand and the identity I think over the years we've worked with people at very
[00:15:26] indifference stages so we've worked with people who are have started up out of a back bedroom
[00:15:30] you know with the software piece of software that's actually starting to gain traction
[00:15:34] in the market and they've realized that actually just having a logo a path when they built a
[00:15:39] home isn't professional enough in the levels that they're going to so they want to actually
[00:15:42] look again at where they're going and how they present themselves and then with the other folks
[00:15:47] who've got an idea with no no clients as yet but a clear clear vision of what they want to do and
[00:15:52] where they want to go and they need helping everything from you know creating a name for the
[00:15:57] business and then actually driving the brand and the look and feel of it through into marketing
[00:16:01] etc etc so let's just look at some of the areas when we mentioned at the beginning people
[00:16:09] hear the word brand you think naturally websites you think logos you think social media
[00:16:14] and those areas are of course important now especially now the online world is you know
[00:16:18] and mobile as well is so important so what there any other areas that that you would suggest
[00:16:24] you know someone starting out in business they need to have some web presence through their own
[00:16:30] website they need to have social media presence are there any other areas that you kind of
[00:16:35] take off the boxes with them I think one of the one of the first questions that we always talk to
[00:16:41] people about is relevance of the various channels I mean with the explosion of digital what's
[00:16:48] what's happened is it's become a bit of a catcher so you get people coming to you going
[00:16:52] and we need this and we need that we need the other without actually without first stopping
[00:16:56] to ask themselves the question give or i'm trying to create what i'm trying to sell i'm
[00:17:00] trying to promote what are the relevant channels where my brand needs to be really effective
[00:17:06] and that and so they start they start with you know some some preconception but there's
[00:17:11] some serious chat needs to happen first to go yeah because a brand in terms of it can function
[00:17:18] and be present in any environment on any platform talking to any audience
[00:17:23] and that's why there is so much out there you can waste an awful lot of time worrying about
[00:17:27] the wrong channels when you should be focusing on the right channels
[00:17:32] so guys you've been nearly 30 years when is the the actual anniversary
[00:17:38] 9th of January next year oh well well i'm looking forward to that party for sure
[00:17:43] is there one tip that you wish you had you know someone had have shared with you back in the
[00:17:48] early days which you think would have you know really helped in terms of your confidence
[00:17:54] your experience of running a business in an agency
[00:18:00] that's a really interesting question i suppose if i were to wind the clock back it would have been
[00:18:07] because we work for lots of companies in lots of different market sectors
[00:18:12] i might have gone down the route of specialization
[00:18:18] that's possibly one of the biggest questions i've always had down the years is
[00:18:22] do you become the brand agency of note for the travel and tourism industry do you become
[00:18:26] the brand agency of note for property industry discuss you know there are companies who do that
[00:18:32] incredibly well equally you know the way we've approached things which is you know our skill
[00:18:36] set is applicable to any market in any way we're somewhat insulated against some of the
[00:18:42] vagueries and economic cycles but i think that's for me is probably it's to what extent do you
[00:18:48] absolutely specialize in a world now which is becoming increasingly niche and increasingly focused
[00:18:54] and what about yourself trief is there one piece of advice that you look back and think wow if
[00:18:58] you know someone had told me that a bit earlier would have made things a little bit easier
[00:19:04] i'm not i'm not so sure i think because on the design side you get excited about
[00:19:08] everything i think that's that's the thing i so so some of the advice would be just to calm
[00:19:12] down the enthusiasm and think more strategically about things um not everything has silver lining
[00:19:17] in terms of design not every project is going to be a great project and i think um because it's a
[00:19:22] more it's a vocation really rather than a career with design you get excited about all things and
[00:19:27] everything so i think maybe a little bit more grounding would have been a good thing um i remember
[00:19:31] when our college might the advice that they gave me was to try and stay in courses as long as
[00:19:36] you possibly could um because you need all the training you can get you're going to be a
[00:19:40] long time working so i think that's very true too yeah so for people listening right now who are
[00:19:49] thinking about starting a business but something's holding them back they're not quite sure uh
[00:19:55] whether they're ready to take the leap with your experience of kind of having that freedom
[00:20:00] of being your own bosses and running the agency for as long as you have done what would be your
[00:20:04] piece of advice for them listening right now i mean it was it was undoubtedly for me the best thing
[00:20:10] i ever did um and i think it clearly depends on the state of life you're at i mean when i started
[00:20:17] this business up i didn't have a wife i didn't have any kids i've got four of them now um i had i had
[00:20:23] no mortgage i was living in mental accommodation um i actually spoke to my dad about it and i
[00:20:28] said what do you think and he went well far as i can work it out you've got absolutely nothing to
[00:20:31] lose um and i think that that's the advice i give people is you know look at where you're at
[00:20:39] and you trust trust your gut and if you're not sure about your gut go and talk to somebody else who's
[00:20:44] opinion you trust and run the idea by them or come and talk to people like us and be interrogated
[00:20:50] and find out the gaps of things you need to maybe think about a bit more before you actually
[00:20:54] make that decision fantastic and from your side trev i think well i'm just gonna have a friend of mine
[00:21:02] who's just done exactly this and he's only a young land and he's he's got an idea for an app um so he's
[00:21:08] just he's literally just left his job to go and pursue the dream of building this app which he
[00:21:14] thinks has got real traction and real possibilities in the marketplace um so he's he's done everything
[00:21:19] he's left his job he's got a vintage car which is selling to raise capital to get this thing
[00:21:23] off the ground and his view is if i don't do it now i won't do it later because the commitment
[00:21:28] is easier now because i don't have anything else to i don't effectively have anything to lose um
[00:21:32] and i think you go so there's a lot that's a great opportunity there i think you get to
[00:21:35] another side of life where you kind of get that mid-life wall and you think actually there's
[00:21:39] just got to be a better way of doing something you know and that can drive you and that and that's
[00:21:43] a driver of a positive idea plus a little bit of a can't go on doing this anymore so i think
[00:21:48] there's two sides to it i think if it's if you do it because you've thought about it and you think
[00:21:53] it's a winner i think it's worth pursuing if you haven't thought it through then clearly there's
[00:21:57] every chance that you will just make a mess of it i think also and you know that yourself sorry
[00:22:01] marvin you just i think you know that instinctively inside i've come back to this whole idea of the
[00:22:06] truth you know we're not in this business to to brand a lie um we're in this this business of
[00:22:11] branding you beautifully to tell the truth in a way that's credible exciting ambitious positive
[00:22:17] future focused in my entry of our relationship me i see i sit firmly on the uh sort of practical
[00:22:24] pragmatic money you know that i ask all those sorts of boring questions in meetings where you
[00:22:30] get to talk about all the exciting stuff um and i think you know again a lot of it comes
[00:22:34] back to ask yourself honestly you know you know what you need to live on you know how much are
[00:22:40] you prepared to gamble how much do you believe in what you're trying to do and how much are you
[00:22:45] prepared to take to take that game because it is a gamble but not to lose sight of that ultimately
[00:22:49] whatever the idea is you need to be able to monetize it yeah very yeah very sure yourself
[00:22:56] that you can monetize it because if you if you leave that question might open you know and
[00:23:00] you're leaving a perfectly well-paid job with all the fringe benefits you could be heading for a
[00:23:05] really unpleasant awakening yeah yeah very much so and and you know certainly it's getting the
[00:23:10] rat race we encourage people who do have that burning desire to go and and and do something
[00:23:15] that they've wanted to do for for so long because they often say don't know when you're on your death
[00:23:20] bed you look back and it's not the things you've done it's the things you haven't done that you
[00:23:23] regret so yeah having that idea but never just seeing if it was possible is uh is something
[00:23:30] you don't want to look back on in years to come and uh and yeah ponder on the thought of what what if
[00:23:34] yeah absolutely right and how do you guys i think another important thing i've realized over the last
[00:23:41] sort of three years of running a skate the rat race is that you know it can be quite a roller coaster
[00:23:46] ride as a as a new entrepreneur early stage and especially when you're the only kind of founder
[00:23:52] in the company do you think that having the partnership has added a dynamic has helped
[00:23:57] with you guys push through some of those barriers over the last 30 years absolutely i
[00:24:02] think i wouldn't i wouldn't be doing this without mark because as he's alluded to as a designer your
[00:24:07] your number one skill is not necessarily financial um acumen uh so i think there's a there's a whole
[00:24:14] business process that runs through this you know we're here to make money as much as we are to do
[00:24:19] great design work and mark is what mark brings to the past is that ability to make sure that
[00:24:23] we're profits from the end of of the year um for all my job is to make sure that the work
[00:24:28] we deliver is at the highest quality yeah i would also add to that i think in here it's been it's an
[00:24:36] incredibly lonely place if you're starting out on your own truly on your own and i have to put my hand
[00:24:42] up here and say i was never ever truly on my own because i had a partner um and we do you know we
[00:24:47] spend a lot of time talking to to clients you know you know people often it's people we know
[00:24:52] who've broken away from their own companies or they've you know like you've described with
[00:24:56] you know with your your projection they've had enough they want to go their own way and actually
[00:25:01] we're a sounding board and so actually you know they'll come in and they'll talk to us about
[00:25:05] you know they'll share their challenges they'll share their concerns because perhaps they can't
[00:25:08] share it with their other half because they don't want to scare them um or perhaps genuinely they
[00:25:13] you know we we can help them sort of either calm down about something or get more excited
[00:25:17] about something or yes you're right to be scared about that but you're actually not like to be
[00:25:21] scared about that you know and it's been it's massively helpful to have sounding boards in my
[00:25:26] experience um you know and then it's certainly sustained us for 30 years the ability to actually
[00:25:31] go what do you think yeah yeah i think so and uh for anyone you know if you are out there on your
[00:25:36] own starting a business and just like you said mark you know sometimes it's difficult actually
[00:25:40] to speak to those close to you because they might not share that vision they might be more risk
[00:25:45] averse and you know trying to protect you but also you know trying to pull back and stop you
[00:25:50] from pursuing those dreams so that's why it's important to connect with other like-minded people
[00:25:55] and come along to escape the rat race meetups or other networking events that are held out there
[00:26:00] and and be around those other positive minds that can you know can can nudge you and keep
[00:26:05] you accountable along the way yeah so is there anything guys that i haven't asked you today
[00:26:11] about creating clarity around your brand that you'd like to share with our listeners
[00:26:15] i think i think we've had a an interesting talk around it as i say i think the the classic
[00:26:24] who what where why and how questions are the fundamentals you know um who are you what is
[00:26:30] it that you do why would i be interested in in engaging with you um and how are you going to
[00:26:36] actually having engaged how are you actually going to deliver and i think they're there the
[00:26:40] fundamental questions that honesty the honest approach and the answer to those things will
[00:26:44] start to help us to formulate um that that brand story which we can then turn into something that we
[00:26:49] can hold up as a benchmark for everything that we do so you know you've got a uh a dynamic product
[00:26:55] you want to launch into a youth market you build a proposition around that that's reflective of
[00:27:00] your personality and the and the market that you're going into what does that look like and then
[00:27:04] all the creative elements that we put together held up against it so does that actually reflect
[00:27:09] this is this true to what we've said it's going to be is it surprising is it is it challenging you
[00:27:15] in some way where are we at in that process and that's so that's the thing for me is that that
[00:27:20] honest initial discovery phase you know it's it's cards on the table let's talk honestly about
[00:27:26] where we are and what we need to achieve and i think also it's often overlooked and when we do
[00:27:30] this with small organizations a lot of large organizations is have a have a bloody good
[00:27:35] who's in the market you're now hoping to enter you know who are they what do they call themselves
[00:27:42] you know they'll all have websites and brand presences what are their vision and values how
[00:27:45] do they articulate what they do I mean unless you've come up with that absolutely unique idea
[00:27:50] that has never been seen or heard of before there are people out there doing what you
[00:27:54] you want to do but you want to do it in a slightly different or a slightly better
[00:27:59] or whatever way cheaper whatever it might be way and the number of people who don't
[00:28:04] understand the landscape into which they're about to launch themselves again is somewhat
[00:28:08] surprising and we do a lot of work just looking at markets for people going this is the visual
[00:28:13] language and this is the tone of voice your market uses this is the this is the imagery
[00:28:18] your market uses this is how they talk to their customers you know because you need to
[00:28:22] understand do you want to fit right into that if you want to stand above it if you want to
[00:28:26] ignore what the what the custom dictates and go in the opposite direction which is brave
[00:28:30] but you can't go the opposite direction if you understand what the existing direction is
[00:28:34] and I think again too many people don't know that yeah yeah so I think you know from the
[00:28:40] conversation we've had today it's been so clear that this is really critical stuff
[00:28:44] that you need to be thinking about and it's not about what color show my logo be
[00:28:49] that there's a whole lot more that comes before that and to work with professionals
[00:28:52] work with experienced people like yourselves who understand the whole concept and when you really
[00:28:58] get your client then as you said the whole branding kind of falls into place around that so guys if
[00:29:05] people do want to get in touch and maybe have a chat with you about your services and how you can
[00:29:09] help them with forming that clarity and that identity what's one of the best ways of them
[00:29:14] getting in touch and maybe following some of the the the creatives that you put out there online
[00:29:20] Yeah well there's I mean we've obviously got a website we've obviously got a presence on
[00:29:23] on LinkedIn um yeah just track us down come talk to us um no one got killed by having
[00:29:30] the conversations my man used to say to me and it's true to this day is it is then
[00:29:35] www.tournboriflady.co.uk yeah all the information you need on there to get in touch with Mark or I
[00:29:41] give us a call come in for a chat as I say we're in Edinburgh and we're in Sobo so two great
[00:29:46] parts of the world to come and have a chat and a cup of tea fantastic yeah well I'll make sure that
[00:29:51] I share of course all of those links within the show notes for today as well so guys thank you
[00:29:56] so much I've really enjoyed the conversation I've learned a lot from this today and I wish
[00:30:01] you all the best for the future for the next 30 years and that's what we're thinking Chris
[00:30:08] and I'll uh I'll look forward to catching up with you both again soon
[00:30:11] okay cheers Chris cheers man nice to talk to you bye
[00:30:19] well I really hope you enjoyed listening to my conversation with Mark Turnbull and
[00:30:23] Treve Ripley there about creating clarity around your brand and congratulations to both of them
[00:30:28] as they approach the 30th anniversary of their agency now it might sound simple but if you're not
[00:30:35] clear on what exactly your business does who it does it for and how you can help solve your
[00:30:40] client's problems then you probably need to spend a little more time defining those key areas before
[00:30:46] you go all in on the design phase because as Treve mentioned as an entrepreneur it is very often
[00:30:52] your personality that shines through when it comes to your brand and you need that clarity
[00:30:58] and honestly at the early stages to be able to build a strong brand and profile now Mark also
[00:31:03] made a great point about doing your research and looking at how existing businesses in your sector
[00:31:09] are communicating their message and then deciding if you're going to fit in or go against the grain
[00:31:15] which is a more risky approach but ultimately could define you and help you stand out from the
[00:31:20] competition so I'd really love to hear what resonated strongly with you during our conversation
[00:31:25] today and if you post your comments in the Escape the Rat Race private Facebook group
[00:31:29] I'll be sure to get back to you personally if you've enjoyed the show today then I'd
[00:31:33] really appreciate your review on either iTunes or the Google Play Store it helps so much to
[00:31:38] spread the word out there to more frustrated employees around the world now if you're at
[00:31:43] those early stages of your own business and seeking accountability from other like-minded
[00:31:47] and highly focused individuals as well as regular access to experienced mentors in
[00:31:52] different areas such as business marketing e-commerce property or wealth building then
[00:31:57] you might be interested in joining our very own peer group for aspiring entrepreneurs the Escape the
[00:32:03] Rat Race Inner Circle no matter where in the world you are we have a level that can support you
[00:32:09] so head on over to www.etr.online forward slash Inner Circle to find out more I'd be absolutely
[00:32:17] thrilled to have you join us well that's all from me for this week's episode wishing you a
[00:32:22] wonderful week ahead see ya